Sunday, August 06, 2006

You Can't Make This Stuff Up ...

A Republican candidate vying to become the next representative of Colorado's 5th Congressional District has a unique answer to fighting Islamic terrorists: convert them to other religions.

Duncan Bremer, a former El Paso County commissioner, offered his gameplan to the Denver Post yesterday.

"There's an aspect of it that people are not willing to talk about, and I am -- its religious basis. ... Our best hope is that we actually convert them away from their religious fanatical basis," Bremer said.

He said that would best be accomplished by missionaries of various faiths.

"I'd prefer that they get converted to evangelical Christianity, but my point is that there is a religious battleground and our government is disabled from fighting on that battleground," Bremer said.

***

Bremer is one of six candidates looking to replace Rep. Joel Hefley, who is retiring. Hefley, you may recall, got in trouble with fellow Republicans for failing last year to give disgraced former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay a free pass from the House Ethics Committee. Soon thereafter, Hefley was replaced as committee chairman.

I don't know if Bremer has a chance, but if he wins Tuesday's primary, it will be interesting to see how fast the GOP comes running. Certainly, the religious right would be happy to support him.

35 Comments:

Anonymous trinity said...

David R. Mark said...
"A Republican candidate vying to become the next representative of Colorado's 5th Congressional District has a unique answer to fighting Islamic terrorists: convert them to other religions."


Not exactly an original idea, David. Ann Coulter suggested this solution after the 9-11 atrocity. She said that "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

In view of the fact that, unlike radical Islamo-facists, Christians do not engage in violent jihad, I think her idea may have some merit, actually.

As long as radical Muslims continue to go around cutting heads off of people and sending their own children out dressed in fashionable suicide bomber vests, to die as they blow up as many innocents as they possibly can, well, you decide what scenario you find more offensive. :rolleyes:

12:43 PM  
Anonymous whoop4467 said...

To Trinity - You advocate the same as what the early American settlers did to the Native Indians: kill them, take their land, convert them to Christianity, put them on reservations, give them all of the booze they want, later legalize gambling on their reservation, keep them poor and un-educated and then we can legitimately call them scum of the earth. So you are saying that God made a mistake when he created humans that do not embrace your brand of Christianity. I recall God implored us to love thy neighbors as thyself, but gave us permission to hate bad behaviour like the "terrorist", like Ann Coulter, like the Republican "hate machine" and "swift boating", like criminals, and like the sin committed by people. People are converted to love peace and God through a loving, helpful, peacfull,caring life example, not by force, supression and war.

2:34 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

whoop4467 said...
"So you are saying that God made a mistake when he created humans that do not embrace your brand of Christianity."


Whoop, you are a perfect example of why I think so little of the debating tactics of the left. Some of you are, quite frankly, moronic. Stop derailing the argument with your nonsense and deal with the subject at hand.

First off, I would love to have you tell me what YOU think my "brand of Christianity" might be. You have no idea what religious beliefs, if any, I might proscribe to. The only thing you might be able to glean from what I've written is that I am probably NOT a murdering, barbaric Islamo-facist who wants to slit your throat.

So spare me your liberal version of "tolerance", whoop. You can love Hezbollah all you like, and since we already have some Hezbollah cells here in this country, you can even invite some of these monsters over to your house for a BBQ for all I care. Keep pontificating about how people like myself are the problem. You sound like an fool.


whoop4467 said... "People are converted to love peace and God through a loving, helpful, peacfull,caring life example, not by force, supression and war."

I repeat. You sound like a fool. There is no "un-making" the worst of these bloodthirsty barbarians. And the future doesn't look too promising either, so long as they themselves continue to teach their children to hate anyone who is not a radical Muslim like themselves.

We are not talking about a moral equivilency here. Israel has never been the aggressor in the Middle East, and is not the aggressor now. She's the defender of her people. And of us too, quite frankly, since we and the rest of the world are facing this very same enemy.

At least try to put this in some perspective, whoop. We send our kids to soccer camp. The children of Islamo-terrorists go to suicide bomber camp. Get it now? You are preaching love to the wrong person. This is an unspeakable evil we are facing. These people kill other Muslims for no sin greater than playing tennis and soccer in shorts. We are not dealing with people who value life, in case you haven't noticed.

As Golda Meir stated so eloquently, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." That means until they stop sending them out to blow themselves up. Until such time, we have no choice but to defend ourselves by ridding the world of as much of this cancer as we can.

I know, flower child. War is not the answer. Well, when you come up with something that works better than war, get back to me, okay?

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S. To whoop. I neglected to tell you how sanctimonious you sounded in your post. ;)

3:41 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

That was me, BTW. I don't know why "trinity" didn't register.

3:42 PM  
Anonymous rob of wilmington, del. said...

The fact that Ann Coulter also came up with the idea doesn't exactly inspire confidence, Trinity.

5:03 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

Hi, rob! I know! Trust me, I was well aware that would be the popular and/or predictable JABBS response before posting that comment. As I typed my post, knowing how libs despise Ann Coulter, I thought to myself, "Wait till they read that!" lol You didn't disappoint me. ;)

In any case, while you're here, rob, let me ask you this. Is it preferable for this kind of extremely violent Islamo-Facism to spread even further, to where it affects all of our lives profoundly, and possibly even fatally? Because that's exactly what is at stake here.

This is not only Israel's fight. This is a fight for Western Civilization. The fact that not everybody recognizes that truth yet, and are caught up in petty politics, doesn't change anything.

Seriously. Ann was only half-joking (if that) when she wrote those words, after losing a friend on 9-11. Missionaries are out in the world today, putting their very lives at risk by living and working among the people of various countries, trying to spread Christ's love. Judeo-Christian values are good things. Not bad things.

In my book, peaceful Christians who value human life certainly contrast very favorably when compared with bloodthirsty barbarians like those who make up Hezbollah and al Qaeda, and groups like that. How about you, rob? Do you have a preference?

It would also be helpful if more moderate Muslims would speak out on this issue, more than they have up until now. They have to renounce this kind of violence, and declare it to be the heresy that it is. The Islamo-Facists have literally hijacked the Muslim religion in order to further their goal of global domination. I find that a bit scary, don't you? Or don't you believe it? ???

6:07 PM  
Anonymous whoop4467 said...

Trinity - you continue to use slanderous speech toward others when someone diagrees with what you say. Your attitude is so condescending. So everyone who does not subsribe to your way of thinking is a moron? Hell, I agree the "terrorist" behaviors are hated by me and anyone who has respect for another life. I never mentioned that I did not support what Israel is doing to defend their country from "terrorist". I am for Israel 100% and with no reservations. I say the reason there is so much "terrorism" in the world is due to the empty, corrupt, hypocritical moral compass of our politics in America from both sides, but my opinion is the Repulicans have the Democrats beat by 500%. How can we as a nation of Ann Coulters running our country try to influence others to try Christianity. Over the life of humanity, many people have died because of religion; Christianity in the top 3.
I served my country in the Army during the Vietnam conflict. I love America just as much as you do and hate "terrorism' and the behavior of those that commit "terrorism" just as much as you do. You and I have 180 degree difference of opinion about how to deal with "terrorism" and mine is not treating other God created human beings like you and your followers would like to repeat the same treatment that Native Americans received. If you have such a desire to exterminate the muslims, I would support your enlisting in the military so you could go fight in which country you could the most good. I would even donate more money to the "operatiopn-helmut fund" to buy a better helmut for you.

9:21 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

whoop4467 said...
"I served my country in the Army during the Vietnam conflict."


Then I thank you sincerely for your service, whoop. My oldest brother served there as well. Perhaps you were even in the same unit?

whoop4467 said...
"Your attitude is so condescending."


I'm sure it probably does come across that way to you, whoop, and I'm sorry, but like yourself, I'm speaking from the heart.

whoop4467 said...
"I love America just as much as you do and hate "terrorism' and the behavior of those that commit "terrorism" just as much as you do."


I do not doubt either of those statements.

whoop4467 said...
"If you have such a desire to exterminate the muslims, I would support your enlisting in the military so you could go fight in which country you could the most good. I would even donate more money to the "operatiopn-helmut fund" to buy a better helmut for you.


Gee, thanks, whoop, but I think I'm past the enlisting age. I'm a three time grandma at this point actually. I do come from a military family, however. My dad's a WWII vet, wounded on the beaches of Normandy. My big brother served in Vietnam, as I mentioned. My sister served many years in the USAF. My youngest brother, USAF as well, served in the first Gulf War. I have several uncles and cousins who served.

So let's get something straight, all right, since I often hear this sort of rhetoric coming from the left. More than 98% of Americans will never have served in the U.S. Military. That does not mean that we cannot have an opinion on these sorts of issues. We're not automatically disqualified from the debate because we didn't serve our country in that way. Please don't make me call you a moron again, all right? ;)

10:40 PM  
Anonymous whoop4467 said...

Trinity - Thanks for agreeing that you were slanderous according to your posted definition. What you said about me is your opinion and not fact and not proven to be true about me because you are angry that I do agree with what you say. You think you are so high and mighty and think those that do not agree with are fools and maronic. You in my opinion are the one that is following a confused leader and walking over the hill and are not aware of it.
You still do not understand that I want Israel to win their battle and to live in peace for the rest of their life. I LOVE JEWS. I think they have been the most mis-understood people on the earth. Any country that they move into they become a very productive member of that society, they learn the language, they learn the laws, they educate themelves, they are producers and not takers, they become friends to anyone that shows them respect. Trinity - you make too many assumptions about people simply because they do not agree with what you believe. You have that typical "Ann Coulter" Republican mind set that anyone who is not with you must be totally against you, must be un-patriotic, must be un-american, must be a fool, must be maronic. You need to accept the fact that there are other Americans that are smart, that love America, that love our constitition(and believe it is more than just apiece of paper, and that think different than the Republican "Spinned" world. I read patriotism in your post and post from other Republicans. Hopefully one day you can read patriotism in my post as well as David's and other non-Republicans on this blog. Once you do that you will feel a peace come over you like you have never experienced.

11:14 PM  
Blogger David R. Mark said...

I reposted this because of a technical glitch:

From Trinity:

whoop4467 said...
"Trinity - you continue to use slanderous speech toward others when someone diagrees with what you say."

Whoop, I beseech you. Go look up the word "slander". Wait, I'll do it for you.....

slan┬Ěder ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slndr) n.

Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.

A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

Whoop, as you can clearly see, in order for a statement to be "slanderous", it must be false. I'm sorry if what I say is harsh, but I really do think you (and others here) sound like a moron at times. And that, my liberal friend, is a statement of opinion, which cannot be either "true" or "false". It's exactly that. My opinion.

And I'm really not trying to be malicious, either. Nor am I trying to hurt your reputation. I'm just frustrated that you cannot seem to understand what types of crazed animals we are dealing with here.

You say you are 100% for Israel with no reservations. Well, I applaud that sentiment. So am I. But if you truly do hold that stance, then how can you be in favor of forcing Israel to make another worthless deal with a terrorist organization like Hezbollah who doesn't simply want Israel out of Southern Lebanon (Israel had been out of Lebanon for six years when this all started) but wants Israel to be annihilated? We must allow Israel to go after Hezbollah and do whatever damage it can do. On this issue, we must lead, follow, or get out of Israel's way.

And Hezbollah is not even content to stay and operate solely in Lebanon, whoop. It's already established in at least four continents, including ours. It is involved in the drug trade and is getting stronger and stronger all the time. It has big plans for the world, whoop. Very big plans.

"I say the reason there is so much "terrorism" in the world is due to the empty, corrupt, hypocritical moral compass of our politics in America from both sides, but my opinion is the Repulicans have the Democrats beat by 500%.

Well, that's the problem right there, whoop. You've bought into the idea that everything bad in the world is America's fault. We're the bad guys. The French say it. The socialist U.N. says it. Al Jazeera says it. MSM say it. It must be true then, right? It would never occur to you that we're actually the good guys in all this, would it? Of course not. You're so brainwashed at this point. Why would you? Now THAT is the sort of thing that really infuriates me. GRRRR!

Ever notice that your side hates to make waves? Even if we're on the side of right, your sides tendency is to appease. You want to go along to get along. You think that if only we made nice with the bad people in the world, they would leave us alone. Remember what Winston Churchill said about appeasers: "The appeaser hopes the crocodile will eat him last".

Here's a photo for you to look at. Check it out:

It's a picture of Neville Chamberlain holding the paper containing the resolution to commit to peaceful methods signed by both Hitler and himself on his return from Germany at Croydon Airport in September 1938. He said:

"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time."

Need I say more?

12:01 AM  
Blogger David R. Mark said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the URL for the photo mentioned above. I hope it works.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/Neville_Chamberlain2.jpg

12:11 AM  
Anonymous trinity said...

whoop4467 said...
Trinity - Thanks for agreeing that you were slanderous according to your posted definition.


Read that definition again, whoop. I didn't agree that I was slanderous towards you. Slander by definition is telling a lie. I didn't lie about anything. I merely stated my opinion, which is quite valid. You're free to disagree with me.

And I do not think I'm "high and mighty", whoop. I honestly don't. You're right that I might sometimes make assumptions about people, but that's based upon what they write. If you don't clearly state your views on issues, that's not my fault. I've been asking posters here to do that for months already, to no avail.

Finally you opened up and said something substantive about what you, whoop4467 thinks. And what's even better, we actually agree.

Finally, whoop, if you read my other post, the one that David deleted and reposted, I came right out and said that I did not doubt your patriotism.

12:24 AM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

Trinity, I don't have time to tackle your arguments in more detail right now. So I will summarize.
We would take you seriously if your posts represented more than repeated Republican/Bushie spin points.
The fact you at first base your argument on Coulter immediately show where you stand on a credibility basis. Zero.
If you're asking us to take Coulter seriously, then we ask you to take Michael Moore seriously: You don't stop terrorism by becoming a terrorist yourself.
Again it is a difference in philosophy. Dems think there are more effective, long-standing ways to deal with terrorism than to exterminate a member of the human race or to pursue constant unending war. As history has proven time and time again, one cannot so easilly convert people to another's religion. It's a recipe for immoral foolishness; unleashing decades of non-stop war. We have to be more sensible in the age of nuclear bombs.
I don't like the way you directly call people who disagree with you "morons" and "unpatriotic" then you take pains to suggest that that is not really what you said at all when that is exactly what you said.
Don't revise yourself by making a visit to dictionary.com It shows.
You are completely wrong to take the Democratic positions and shoe-horn them into Bushie spin points: "Americans are the bad guys," Democrats support Hezzbollah." blah blah blah.
Empty baseless spin. Why don't you look at both sides of an argument and come up with your own opinion, instead of regurgitating Bushie spin points you have stolen from Mark Levin. You have been clearly brainwashed. Sad.

9:09 AM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"We would take you seriously if your posts represented more than repeated Republican/Bushie spin points."


Twot, I post mainly to respond to what's written here that I disagree with. Whether or not you take me seriously is not one of my concerns, frankly.

I can just as easily turn your sentence around and say that I would take YOU more seriously, if your posts represented more than talking points from the extreme leftist Pelosi/Reid/Kennedy etc. wing of your party.

We are coming from two different places, twot. Accept it. I say what I say because it is what I believe in my heart. I'm assuming it's the same with you. Or am I wrong about that? If I'm brainwashed, then what are you?

First off, I really don't even take this topic very seriously, since it's obvious that we're not actually going to be making this part of our foreign policy, killing all the leaders of these countries and shoving Christianity down people's throats. It's just an abstract idea that someone brought up, which as I said, is interesting and has some definite appeal, but is still nothing more than a hypothetical.

thewaronterrible said...
"I don't like the way you directly call people who disagree with you "morons" and "unpatriotic" then you take pains to suggest that that is not really what you said at all when that is exactly what you said."


I do not remember calling anyone here unpatriotic, twot. Could you please reference my post where I said that? I'll respond to it then. Thanks.

Also, I did not suggest that I didn't mean it when I said I thought some of you sounded like morons. I did mean it, and I still do. What I said was that it was my opinion, and my opinion does not qualify as "slander". I simply pointed that out to whoop. Please don't twist my words, either of you.

11:51 AM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:44 PM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

I reposted above to correct an error.
Trinity, I reread your posts including the latest. You have me confused.
If you are not advocating mass slaughter and religious conversion of a mass Arab population, then just what are you advocating?
You mention that "moderate muslums must speak out". Just how do we separate these moderate muslims from the "bloodthirsty barbarians" and "Islamo facists" who "send their children to terrorism camps."
Not so easy is it?
Some of our supposed friends allegedly puppy-dog eager for Democracy in Iraq are widely wagging their tails in approval of Hezzabollah and his latest assault on Israel.
The U.S. Military has established a frustrating inability to divide the "good" Iraqis who support the U.S. effort verses the "bad" Iraqis who infiltrate the Iraqi security patrols, etc.
Of course you'd just have us bomb Iran to teach a lesson to these-blood thirsty, Hezzabollah-loving terrorists to further emflame the Shittes in Iraq against the U.S.? How does an all out regional Arab war, esculating into probable nuclear war sound to you?
Then you make broad brush statements like Hezzbollah is also the enemy to the entire world. Yeah, right. The popular spin attached by the right against enemies/terrorists as it has been determined by the Bush Administration, I guess. Give me a break.
More recent history than the radically different situation in World War II you Rethugs like to inaccurately extrapoliate has questioned whether playing the role of the world's policeman does any good or whether the use of military force, or encouraging other countries to use force, produces any fruit but needless mass death and destruction and endless war of speculative outcome, which seems to be your real position.
I wish you war hawk Ann Coulterish Republicans would spare the rest of the peace-loving world.
More than "2 percent" of the U.S. population would be required to march off to war if you and your kind had your wishes. I suppose then you support reinstitution of the draft?
Please make sure your grand children are the first of whom the U.S. government signs up.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

whoop4467 said...
"People are converted to love peace and God through a loving, helpful, peacfull,caring life example, not by force, supression and war."


Ah, but the Islamo-Facists don't give a flying leap about such things, whoop. They support an extremely harsh, hateful, intolerant and barbaric form of Islam, which only cares about one thing, namely, submit to the same, or lose your head. So I ask you? How do you suggest dealing with such a radical and intolerant ideology? Come on! This is what we're dealing with. What do you suggest?

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thewaronterrible said...
"Trinity, I reread your posts including the latest. You have me confused.
If you are not advocating mass slaughter and religious conversion of a mass Arab population, then just what are you advocating?"


First things first, twot. I don't think you responded yet to my question. I'll repeat it:

"I do not remember calling anyone here unpatriotic, twot. Could you please reference my post where I said that? I'll respond to it then. Thanks."

2:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again, that post is mine. I think I hit "login and publish" too quickly for "trinity" to register.

2:06 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

I give up!

2:07 PM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

Trinity, you have more important things to be concerned about other than whether you register as anoymous or Trinity -- such as your entire postion on the Middle East.
I have simply connected "unpatriotic" to your statements that the Dems want to support Hezzabollah/terrorists.
In other posts you've certainly drawn a line between the two alleged positions of Dems.
Let me make myself clear. Because the Dems know the reality of the situation is that the U.S. must pursue compromise between warring groups, which are not always terrorists to some of our allies, to ever reach an everlasting peace. Terrorists are often not universally viewed as terrorists by some of our staunchest allies.
One of the largest, internationally acknowledged miscalculations of Bush Administration foreign policy is pretending it can shove its position down the throats of any country, or curiously refuse to negotiate with any country that refuses to first submit to its' own narrow view of who is right and who is wrong.
Then the Bush Administration does not concern itself with suffering where our interests are not threatened. Did somebody say oil?
It's no wonder the U.S. under the Bush Administration is so hated internationally, and subsequently facing a greater threat from Arab terrorism than ever before.
Some like Trinity won't understand until they see a mushroom cloud rising over Manhattan. Rice has already made that self-fulfilling prophecy.
Violence only begats more violence, especially when, as Trinity declares, it is directed at innocent people. Violence only fuels the terrorists.
The Bushies simply will not allow themselves to learn the plain lessons taught by Iraq, exactly the way Osama Bin Laden wants it.

3:34 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"I have simply connected "unpatriotic" to your statements that the Dems want to support Hezzabollah/terrorists."


No, no, no, no, no, twot. It doesn't work that way. No backpedaling for you unless you immediately follow it up with a complete retraction, all right?

I asked that you not twist my words. I won't be responsible for your 'interpretation' of what I say. The fact that you make improper inferences from my posts is your problem, not mine. Besides which, you accused me of having said it "directly", remember? Again, here is your allegation:

thewaronterrible said...
"I don't like the way you directly (emphasis mine) call people who disagree with you "morons" and "unpatriotic" then you take pains to suggest that that is not really what you said at all when that is exactly what you said."


I'll await your reply before I respond to the other stuff you wrote, okay, twot?

4:27 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"I have simply connected "unpatriotic" to your statements that the Dems want to support Hezzabollah/terrorists."


Hmmm. While you're at it, find those statements as well, because I can't.

4:49 PM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

Okay, I take back the unpatriotic comment. Instead of using unpatriotic, I should have instead said you were baselessly labeling Dems as Hezzbollah lovers.
As to your accusing Whoop of sounding like a moron, no one is asking you whether you yourself think it was a slanderous comment or not. You baselessly said he sounded like a moron. It was offensive in any context.
These are all minor issues compared to the real ones at hand.

5:00 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

whoop4467 said...
"You in my opinion are the one that is following a confused leader and walking over the hill and are not aware of it.


What can I say, whoop? You're entitled to your opinion. Wish you would be more specific so that I had something to respond to though.

You just said that we basically agree on Israel, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Iraq? In that case, yes, I support the President's resolve to go after the leadership of countries that harbor and support terrorism, especially when that country's government is in material breach of almost two dozen U.N. Resolutions, and has attempted to assassinate one of our presidents. Call me crazy! The Bush Doctrine states that we will not descriminate between terrorists and the states that support them, and I do agree with that as well.

whoop4467 said...
"Hopefully one day you can read patriotism in my post as well as David's and other non-Republicans on this blog. Once you do that you will feel a peace come over you like you have never experienced.


As I already assured you, whoop. I do recognize your patriotism. I just question your judgement and fear your naivete, which most of the other posters here seem to share.

I do not consider you to be among the worst of the bunch though. Twot is pretty scary though. He seems to have a difficult time making moral judgements regarding what should be simple matters of right and wrong.

That is what's wrong with the left today. They abhor making moral judgements, so they end up having a problem acknowledging and/or recognizing evil, let alone condemning it. Ironically, however, they seem to have no problem condemning our own country every time you turn around. That seems rather warped, imo.

5:13 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"Okay, I take back the unpatriotic comment.


Thank you. :)

thewaronterrible said...
"Instead of using unpatriotic, I should have instead said you were baselessly labeling Dems as Hezzbollah lovers."


And are you sure I was "baselessly labeling Dems as Hezbollah lovers", twot? Or are you referring only to my one response to whoop, who was sanctimoniously lecturing me about loving the sinner, (Hezbollah) but hating the sin? (bombing and beheadings of innocents) Here's what I said to whoop...

trinity said...
"So spare me your liberal version of "tolerance", whoop. You can love Hezbollah all you like, and since we already have some Hezbollah cells here in this country, you can even invite some of these monsters over to your house for a BBQ for all I care. Keep pontificating about how people like myself are the problem. You sound like an fool."


Is that the statement that got your knickers all bunched up, twot? Do you think that direct response to something specific that one person said to me, to really qualify as my "baselessly labeling Dems as Hezbollah lovers"? Come on now. That's not very fair a statement, is it?

thewaronterrible said...
"As to your accusing Whoop of sounding like a moron, no one is asking you whether you yourself think it was a slanderous comment or not. You baselessly said he sounded like a moron. It was offensive in any context."


Twot, even the 1st Amendment doesn't give anybody absolute protection against being "offended". Let's keep it serious, okay? If I said that whoop was a thief, and it was not true, I would be guilty of making a slanderous statement. Making a comment about how someone sounds like a moron, is NOT, I repeat, NOT, a slanderous statement, regardless of how offended one might get over the comment.

5:35 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"Trinity, you have more important things to be concerned about other than whether you register as anoymous or Trinity -- such as your entire postion on the Middle East."


All right. Tell me what you think I should be concerned about with regard to my entire position on the Middle East, twot. Where is it that you think I've gone astray in my thinking? Do tell. I can't wait to hear your thoughtful insight on this issue. Fire away!

6:30 PM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

Trinity said: "Ironically, however, they seem to have no problem condemning our own country every time you turn around. That seems rather warped, imo."

Obviously, I spoke too soon in taking back my claim that Trinity claimed Dems were unpatriotic. I only had to step away for ten seconds...

As for why I feel you should be concerned about your bomb-first-ask-questions-later positions on the Middle East, that is what I've been talking about my last several posts to you here.
Why don't you respond to my claim that the draft would likely have to be reinstituted to support the kind of endless war against global Islamic terrorism/end of world position you seem to endorse.

9:49 PM  
Anonymous trinity said...

thewaronterrible said...
"Trinity said: "Ironically, however, they seem to have no problem condemning our own country every time you turn around. That seems rather warped, imo."

Obviously, I spoke too soon in taking back my claim that Trinity claimed Dems were unpatriotic. I only had to step away for ten seconds..."


Well, if you'd at least make an attempt at being accurate, twot, you would see that I was not talking about Democrats in general, but the far "left" wing of your party. That quote of mine that you pulled in my post to whoop, was preceded by this disclaimer:

"I do not consider you to be among the worst of the bunch though. Twot is pretty scary though. He seems to have a difficult time making moral judgements regarding what should be simple matters of right and wrong.

That is what's wrong with the left today. They abhor making moral judgements, so they end up having a problem acknowledging and/or recognizing evil, let alone condemning it."


And when speaking of the "left", I will not back away from what I said about them. They are indeed part of the very prominent "blame America first" crowd (I know you're familiar with the term) who take the position that America is always on the wrong side of every issue. Those of you who fit this description know very well who you are.

thewaronterrible said...
"Why don't you respond to my claim that the draft would likely have to be reinstituted to support the kind of endless war against global Islamic terrorism/end of world position you seem to endorse.


First of all, I do not advocate war for the purpose of "world position", so I do not know what you are talking about there. The war against the ever-growing threat of Islamo-Facism, however, I do consider very real. I get the distinct impression that you do not. You can take this opportunity to clarify your position on that.

With regard to the draft, Democrats have been trying to bring it back for quite a while now, twot. I believe it was Charlie Rangel's bill in the House a couple of years ago, right? If I remember correctly, he voted against his own bill.

Will it ever be necessary to reconstitute the draft? I don't know. Perhaps someday, but I hope not. It seems to me that an all-volunteer military is preferable to drafting people who just don't want to fight, although I've heard a couple of very good pro-draft arguments from one very intelligent man who wrote a book about it. It wasn't Charlie Rangel though, and it wasn't for the reasons that you might expect. I could look it up if you are interested in knowing the name of the book.

12:39 AM  
Anonymous trinity said...

I don't know if you guys ever read anything that's not posted on a left-wing blog, but here are two articles that make some very salient points about issues we are dealing with today, if you're interested....

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Aug-06-Sun-2006/opinion/8571758.html

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDBhMzg5Mzk4NjQ5MjM5OTJhZjRjMWQ4OWMzNDhmMzk=

1:00 AM  
Anonymous whoop4467 said...

Trinity - I have no doubt you support any policy that is enunciated by GWB via his poor use of the english language. But I would like to know what proof you have that Saddam harbored and supported "terrorism" ( other than the $25,000 he gave to Palestine Bombers of Israel) that affected the US. I have read several books about things that affected the decesion to invade Iraq and I never found any connection of Saddam or Iraq to 911 or any "terrorist" acts against the US. Some books I recommend are the following:
1. "Worse than Watergate" by John Dean who you dislike but also know he was Nixon's White House counsel.
2. "Conservatives without a Conscience" by John Dean.
3. "Cobra II" by two authors one of which is retired General Bernard Trainor who was involved in the intelligence in the military.
4. "The 911 Commission Report" by several authors.
5. A new book that I have not read but seen several reviews named "Fiasco" by a name that I can not remember.
6. "The book on Bush" by Eric Alterman and Mark Green.
One that is tangential to no Iraq connection to 911 is another that I recommend: "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips who was a Republican strategist who helped Reagan win his election.
In the book "Cobra II" the authors tell why Saddam was not cooperative with the UN inspectors. They contend Saddam told his Generals in the fall of 2002 that Iraq no longer had their WMDs and one of Saddams generals told the Russian Ambassador that fact. That information then became international knowledge to high level national leaders, including our CIA. I do not have concrete proof for you, but it is easy for me to believe that the Bush Administion also knew. In "Cobra II" they said the reason Saddam tried to hide the fact he no longer had WMDs is because: 1. He did not want Iran to know for he feared them and not the US because he thought we had no reason to invade due to fact that he had nothing to do with 911( He forgot about his attempt to kill Bush senior I guess)and 2. He did not want his own people to know for fear of an uprising.
Other things that affect my opinion about what the Bush Administration knew are the following:
1. I worked with Landsat data In the years 1980-1983 that had 3 meter square resolution. In 1983 the government improved the landsat to 1 meter square resolution. With that capability they could cover the entire earth with 1 meter coverage in 24 hrs. It was so good you could read the license # on a vehicle. I know it has been improved even more since 1983. Therefore, this is a tool that would have been stupid of our government not to use to cover every inch of Iraq to determine what WMDs they had or did not have.
2. Why was the Bush Adminstration so confident that our invasion would be greeted as liberators, they would greet us with flowers and not WMDs, this would not take more than months according to Rumsfeld(He said "Maybe days, maybe weeks, but not months), Chaney said on "Meet the Press" in March 2003 before the invasion that Iraq would be an easy country to defeat - They knew more than they were telling the public?
3. Chaney and Rumsfeld knew Saddam had WMDs at one time because they both were the Reagan adminstration dealers that were involved in the sell of such weapons to Saddam because Reagan wanted Iraq to defeat Iran. That means both had knowledge of exactly what type of weapons and how many were sold to Saddam. When Saddam gassed the Kurds during Reagan's tenure, he basically said "You should not have done that" but continued to sell whatever Saddam wanted.
3. There is substantial information in the reading that 99.9% of Saddam WMDs were destroyed via the inspections, the the sanctions, via the first Gilf War, by the "no fly zone" policy and by international /US watchfull eyes and by old age decay. They are still finding some old ammo buried from the Iran War.
On your reason for the invasion due to the attempt to kill Bush senior. GWB held a grudge for awhile before using that as a reason to invade( from 2001 until Mar 2003).

2:00 AM  
Blogger thewaronterrible said...

Good info, Whoop. But be advised Trinity will continue to recite baseless conservative spin that Bush had full justification to attack Iraq, the story never changes, even as ever-mounting volumes of facts show otherwise.
Trinity and the Right Wing simply do not care to hear the story how the U.S. was needlessly dragged and duped into the largest strategic military blunder in history. They just don't care to hear how every prediction/distortion of the Bush Administration on Iraq turned out to be fatally wrong.
Such info just doesn't register with Bushie apologist talking points.
Let Trinity explain her position to her grandchildren when they rush home from school years from now saying:
"Guess what we learned today. Former presidents convinced the people to support two long, catastrophic disasterous wars: Vietnam and Iraq. I don't understand. How could congress and the people allow it to happen? Please tell me Grandma, grandma...why that blank look on your face."

8:55 AM  

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