Sunday, October 02, 2005

Fitzgerald Apparently Mulling Charges of Criminal Conspiracy Against Libby, Rove

As his investigaiton into the unmasking of CIA operative Valerie Plame concludes, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is apparently mulling charges of a criminal conspiracy perpetrated by senior Bush Administration officials, most likely including I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Karl Rove.

The Washington Post, in a story in today's issue, said Fitzgerald may take this tact because he lacks evidence to prove a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which he first set out to investigate. To prove a violation of the act, Fitzgerald would have to show that government officials knew an operative had covert status and intentionally leaked the operative's identity.

According to lawyers who spoke to the Post on the condition of anonymity, Fitzgerald is apparently considering the alternative, which may be easier to prove.

Under this legal tactic, Fitzgerald would attempt to establish that at least two or more officials (conceivably, Libby and Rove) agreed to take affirmative steps to discredit and retaliate against Plame's husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, and leak sensitive government information about his wife. To prove a criminal conspiracy, the actions need not have been criminal, but conspirators must have had a criminal purpose.

While conspiracy cases are viewed by criminal prosecutors as simpler to bring than more straightforward criminal charges, they are also trickier to sell to juries. "That would arguably be a close call for a prosecutor, but it could be tried," a veteran Washington criminal attorney with longtime experience in national security cases told the Post.

The grand jury is scheduled to expire Oct. 28, and lawyers in the case told the Post that Fitzgerald could signal his intentions as early as this week.

Fitzgerald is investigating whether anyone illegally disclosed Plame's name or undercover CIA job in retaliation against Wilson. In a 2003 op-ed piece in the New York Times, Wilson accused the White House of using "twisted" intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq.


Anonymous mike_c said...

just dragging them into court under indictment would bring down the GOP agenda-- all their attention would be focused on keeping their fat asses out of prison.

9:05 AM  
Anonymous Polethebear said...

Don't get your hopes up. I have heard Larry F is incomopent as a prosecutor as chimp is a pres.

Let me look for a link....

Here you go

This guy has researched everything in regards to both WTC attacks and what Al-Qeada WANTED to do,which is enough in of itself. I heard him say something about how when Larry.F was at/in charge of the NY Fed proscuetor's office.They set up a bugged payphone conversation between ramzi youseff and of the al-qeada LTs. Anyway,they had a translator set up and ready but problem was they didn't bother to find out whether or not he could understand the terrorists' dilect......he couldn't.

9:07 AM  
Anonymous FrankBooth said...

Not really sure who Larry F. is but if you mean Pat F., then you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

9:08 AM  
Anonymous Polethebear said...

Maybe ...

my mistake......

I will doublecheck.

Right guy,wrong name

9:08 AM  
Anonymous lovuian said...

Mulling thats an interesting word!!! Like it hadn't crossed his mind
To consider it carefully; to ponder on it.

Thesaurus: contemplate, ponder, think over, deliberate, ruminate, reflect on, cogitate, meditate, muse on, study, examine.
Form: mull something over (always now)

I think it came up in his mind and is a REAL Possibility!!!

9:09 AM  
Anonymous jobycom said...

So how will they Swiftboat Fitzgerald?

9:11 AM  
Anonymous longship said...

This is fairly old news.

When Fitz was beginning to bring people from the administration into court in earnest, these speculations were a significant part of the press written about the case. The whole deal with the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act is that it is difficult to prove. As others have pointed out, including John Dean, there are other laws which may apply which are not so difficult.

Still if all we have is perjury and conspiracy charges that may be sufficient. Plus, there *has* been a cover-up. There may be obstruction of justice charges. The latter is the final blow that brought down Nixon, the smoking gun tape.

9:12 AM  
Anonymous perky said...

I am still holding out for Perjury and obstruction.

I think the easier case to prove is that of cover-up ans stone walling. But throw in conspiracy what you might be looking at is a 1 0years sentence.

But here is the thing neither has codeword clearance....Who told them? and Why?

They will never flip Libby because he is a neo-con's neo-con and the end justifies the means...always. Rove I think is a lot more practical and I think he might be persuaded to give up Cheney.

Now here is the rub. Cheney would no doubt claim executive privilege but he would be excoriated by conservative pundit of all stripes. Congress will be called to investigate and Cheney will step down... You can count on a pardon. But here is the big story. Bush will nominate Condi and she will instantly become the heir apparent in 2008. Certainly would be a Neo-con pick

9:13 AM  
Anonymous longship said...

If this hits Cheney, there may be impeachment for Chimp.

If this goes as high as Crashcart, I don't see them stopping there. It's been two years since Chimpy promised to find the leaker. We know he's known about this for at least that long. So why in the Hell can he get away with the claim that he couldn't find the leakers when they are all the people closest to him?

If he is lying, he is obstructing justice and is impeachable on that charge. If he is ignorant of this in spite of his attempts to find the leaker, then he is totally incompetent and is impeachable for that.

Either way, he's fucked. If Crashcart goes down, Chimp goes down.

9:13 AM  
Anonymous perky said...

Not with a Republican house.

It just will not happen. Even if this thing escalated substantially You would see him indicted by Fitz before an impeachment occures. Then we would really be in uncharted waters.

9:14 AM  
Anonymous longship said...

I realize the political situation.

But it is not a static situation. The House and Senate are becoming volatile. With the Hammer down, apparently for the count, and with Frist getting into deep water, soon there may not be a lot to hold moderates in line.

The House is crucial, it's also the wackier of the two Legislative branches. But every single one of them must stand for reelection. If the Dems are smart, they are going to start campaigning for the House right now by doing some of their own hammering. It is possible that many of the more moderate Republicans can be turned. Regardless of the difficulty of this task, it must be tried.

Here's why. We basically have a critically wounded government right now. One could successfully argue that our country is now in grave danger because of the inability of our government to respond to events, national and international. Chimpy and Crashcart and Company have put our entire country at risk and we need to act like patriots and do our best to get these incompetents out of there before some really serious damage is done.

9:15 AM  
Anonymous Polethebear said...

that's too much......

9:15 AM  
Anonymous Old Crusoe said...

If he rings me up, I'll help him decide. NAIL the sonofabitch. And his asshole boss, too.

9:17 AM  
Anonymous bluestateguy said...

Knocking on wood...

If I were you I would delete that post. We don't want to jinx things. Haven't we had enough door slams over the last 5 years?

9:18 AM  
Anonymous Greylyn58 said...

I'm praying real hard for this to happen. This would be the ultimate Christmas gift and an early one too.


9:19 AM  
Anonymous napi21 said...

I don't thing anybody ex[ected Fitz to prosecute the IIp Act.

I don't totally agree with this article either. I think many charges are going to be perjury and obstruction of justice. Maybe one or two non-indicted co-conspirator charges.

This has been a very long investigation. Fitz isn't giving up easily.

Next week, I bet!

9:20 AM  
Anonymous windbreeze said...

OK...but what about the actual espionage codes, The US Codes 18 793/794? citizenspook on his blog, explains that Fitz will never get a conviction under the IIPA, because just as you wrote the Wash Po article states "that he lacks evidence to prove a violation of the IIPA occurred"...but if the proper US Codes of Justice were used...Fitz has everything he needs to why are the proper codes being ignored, in favor of using the IIPA?

another case of smoke and mirrors? IMO, anyone who was a party to outing her, is guilty of ands, ifs, or buts...

9:21 AM  
Blogger Unadulterated Underdog said...

I've followed this case for a long time and I sincerely hope that justice will be served. The truth is that the entire Bush Administration is guilty of quite a fe wthings, most of which we'll never be able to document, at least until we get a non-Republican in the White House who is willing to release the documents proving what went on. In any case, this particular set of accusations against Rove and Libby have my hopes on a high peak that justice, to some degree, will be served against these radical rightists.

12:27 PM  
Anonymous meg said...

According to lawyers who spoke to the Post on the condition of anonymity, Fitzgerald is apparently considering the alternative, which may be easier to prove.

What lawyers? Fitzgerald lawyers? (I doubt that. His team has been so leak-proof.) Libby lawyers? Rove Lawyers? Just plain old shy lawyers?

Clearly the affiliation taints the assertion.

Clearly this is poor journalism.

5:44 PM  
Anonymous H2O Man said...

Unlike witnesses, lawyers can face consequences for discussing the grand jury proceedings outside of the courtroom. Hence, it is important that the journalists not identify the lawyers. However, it is fairly simple. The prosecutor's office isn't talking; they have no reason to. The attorneys who are speaking off the record are Matt Cooper's and Karl Rove's people.

5:45 PM  
Anonymous meg said...

I Agree. WP today says just that.

But a new theory about Fitzgerald's aim has emerged in recent weeks from two lawyers who have had extensive conversations with the prosecutor while representing witnesses in the case.

5:45 PM  
Anonymous H2O Man said...

It's showtime. Those lawyers are speaking for a reason. It really doesn't look good for the intel agency run out of the VP's offices.

5:46 PM  
Anonymous hootinholler said...

And they're leading the show in the direction they think most advantageous to their clients. They know they have this small window to set the talking points of the ignorant masses.

My money is still on straight up espionage, obstruction and related conspiracies.

I just hope that Sibel has testified.


5:46 PM  
Anonymous leftchick said...

can an un-indicted co-conspirator nominate a SCJ? I am hoping this stops bush's next pick. My, I am optimistic this morning aren't I?

5:47 PM  
Anonymous dubyadubya3 said...

Indeed, sounds like a conflict of interest as if that would stop this corrupt, evil administration from doing the right thing.

5:47 PM  
Anonymous DoYouEverWonder said...

It's no longer a matter of if but when.

I assume W and and the gang are huddled up at Camp David this weekend trying to figure out what to pull next to save their sorry asses.

6:02 PM  
Anonymous npincus said...

I hope indictments come down AFTER Chimpy announces Court Nominee.

If the CHIMP were CONSIDERING nominating a conservative-leaning-moderate or even a "moderate" person to replace O'Connor, he would take a SHARP RIGHT if indictments were to come down first... he would badly need the distraction of a bloody, partisan battle to dilute the media feeding frenzy that could follow. Our MSM would be only too willing to focus on "those partisan Democrats" than shine a light on the rats infesting the WH.

6:03 PM  
Anonymous Pepperbelly said...

If Judas Maximus knows Bush/Cheney were involved it is a lead pipe cinch that Fitzgerald does as well. I certainly hope he's contemplating more than those two shit-smears.

6:03 PM  
Anonymous DoYouEverWonder said...

Because the treason goes all the way to the top and Fitzgerald knows how important doing this case right is.

6:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


What's up with all the filler-posters lately? I've seen more and more of these strings of unregistered posts having little conversations with themselves over a 1 to 3 minute time period lately. You got ringers in here?

H2O Man, hootinholler, meg?

DoYouEverWonder, npincus, Pepperbelly, DoYouEverWonder?

How about "Do You Ever Fake Comments"? Is there any way three different people could post 7 comments, and respond to each other, over less than a three minute period (5:44 to 5:47 for example)? And all unregistered, eh?

I'm not accusing David, he's got enough legit traffic here, but to whoever is doin' that: what is up with that?

6:42 PM  
Blogger David R. Mark said...

I think there is a glitch in the system ( was down for about an hour this evening for "repairs.")

Maybe the time stamping function is one of the things that needs repairing.

The comments are clearly not spam, though.

9:45 PM  
Blogger Snoop said...

Just Wondering...

OKLiberal said:
"I've followed this case for a long time and I sincerely hope that justice will be served. The truth is that the entire Bush Administration is guilty of quite a fe wthings, most of which we'll never be able to document,"

The Clinton Legacy

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad

Never mind these huh?

10:30 PM  
Anonymous Angelina's Evil Twin said...

Snoop, there's a difference between accusations and convictions.

For excample, I can accuse of you being a moron, bent on making WILD and FALSE accusations you can't back up with FACTS.

10:09 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

Snoop, you know you are always the funniest poster that comes throught here. Priceless!

How much longer you righties gonna keep pointing at Clinton every time the republicrooks start digging themselves into holes they can't get out of? Get over it already!

You like to hold the two administrations up for comparison. Okay, only instead of a scandal race let's talk about: the deficit, the economy, employment, poverty, education, gas prices, uh, can I stop now?

Keep trying, Snoop. Always very funny stuff!

1:51 PM  

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